John Kiriakou: Tell you another thing about John Brennan. This guy is very, very bright and he’s a survivor. Here he is, Barak Obama’s Deputy National Security Advisor. Barack Obama’s CIA Director. He was also the Number Three in George W Bush’s CIA. He was up to his neck in the torture program. How is it that one day he’s a George W Bush neo-Con, and the next day he’s a Barack Obama neo-Liberal? That is what a survivor John Brennan is. He’s a chameleon, and he can morph into anything.
John Kiriakou: My last point about John Brennan is that this guy is dangerous to our democracy. If John Brennan had his way, everyone would be under suspicion. Every journalist would have to clear his stories with the CIA. Every journalist would have his phone tapped by the FBI or by NSA, or would have to be on a no-fly list, or would be under investigation by the Justice Department.
John Kiriakou: This article that she has written, that Sharyl Attkisson has written, shows how there’s continuity between administrations because every administration has people just like John Brennan in it.
Garland Nixon: The reason that happens is, and this is the discussion that we’ve been having, and this is what is actually powerful. It’s in about her third or fourth paragraph where she says that the people who do this actually violate the law, and that they’re not held responsible for it. John Brennan not only did all of that. John Brennan went before Congress and lied, lied, absolutely lied, and later on when he was caught, he just simply apologized for it. No one in Congress … Sharyl Attkisson is the first person I’ve seen in the media, anywhere, who has implied that maybe these people should be held responsible legally. Nobody ever says what she said. That’s why this article’s important, because it’s what we’ve been discussing, is that people can break the law and no one in any authoritative position is going to say, “Perhaps we should consider perjury charges.”
Lee Stranahan: You say there’s no consequences for John Brennan, but he is on t.v. news all the time. So, there is a consequence.
John Kiriakou: What makes me sick is the likes of John Brennan and Mike Hayden and Clapper are somehow now these vaunted senior statesmen, the moral authority of the opposition, and nothing could be further from the truth.
Lee Stranahan: And I got to say, the thing Brennan was on the news for recently is saying that he’s been criticized by who? Donald Trump. He says that he wears that as a badge of honor. I got to point out, as critical as people are of Trump, on the left … I keep saying this because I’m trying to get it through to people on the left … You’ve got to understand that the Deep State is scared to death of Trump. You don’t have to agree with his policy. You don’t have to like Trump. You don’t have to like him personally. You don’t have to anything, but you got to realize that he is putting the fear of God into the Deep State because … this my argument … they can’t control him. They’re trying. They’ve done a good job of mostly controlling him, I would say, but they don’t, because he’s got a huge amount of money. He’s got enough money-
Garland Nixon: He’s not one of them.
John Kiriakou: He never has been.
Garland Nixon: Here’s the thing about it. He doesn’t have the pedigree and the background that they want. He’s not one of them, so they can predict what he’ll do. The one thing the people in power absolutely abhor, it’s an inability to predict what’s going to happen next and what people are going to do. They can’t predict what he’s going to do, and that’s what they really hate about him.
Lee Stranahan: And they can’t control his tweets. That’s why it’s very, very interesting. We’ve got more coming up. We’re talking to John Kiriakou.
Lee Stranahan: You’re listening to Fault Lines, with Nixon and Stranahan.
Garland Nixon: Welcome back to Fault Lines with Nixon and Stranahan. We have with us as guest, John Kiriakou, former CIA officer. John, we’re talking about Sharyl Attkisson’s Hill article. It’s 10 Times the Intel Community Violated the Trust of US Citizens, Law Makers, and Allies. Look. You can tell me right off the bat. We talk about John Brennan and I say, this man committed perjury. This man lied to Congress under oath.
John Kiriakou: And he committed computer fraud. There are any number of felony charges that a Justice Department, if it so desired, could levy against John Brennan, without any doubt.
Garland Nixon: Give our listeners some examples.
John Kiriakou: Breaking into the Senate Intelligence Committee’s computer system, and then lying about it. Listen. Lying to an officer of the federal government, or official of the federal government, is a felony. It’s called “making a false statement.” You can’t lie, and John Brennan came out and said, “We did not hack into the Senate Intelligence Committee’s computers, period.” That was a lie. Then, when he got caught red-handed, he just apologized, but there’s a postscript to that, as well. When it was over, it was Brennan that asked the Justice Department to file felony charges against the Senate Intelligence Committee staffers, because he said that they had accessed CIA documents to which they weren’t entitled, which wasn’t true. So, the apology was empty. There was nothing behind that apology.
Garland Nixon: Didn’t he also deny … Was it torture? He denied some other stuff to Congress, didn’t he?
John Kiriakou: He denied that there was a torture program. That was a lie. He was the Number Three at the CIA, as I said a moment ago. He was the Number Three at the CIA during the torture program. He said there was no torture. That was a lie. He said that there were no secret prisons around the world where prisoners were being tortured. That was a lie. He said that there was no extraordinary rendition program where people were being kidnapped and sent to third countries. That was a lie. Then he lied about the Senate Intelligence Committee hack.